working4christ2

CopticChristian · #17 Feb 28, '13, 7:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doxiemom

Ok, one more time

God the Father has as His wife the Jewish people: this is refered to in the Old testament

Jesus the Son , is the Bridegroom and we-the church- are the Bride. This is refered to in the New testament.

God has plans for the jews that have yet to be fulfilled. That too is in Scripture.

Replacement theology is wrong. Period.The jews have not been replaced as God's Chosen people.

I do not want to trade barbs with you. It is not my style. Should you chose to think i am off my rocker about this, that is fine. No sin here involved. And everything, IMHO, comes down to "is this a sin?"

I am here to read others thoughts and give my humble, sometimes not too deep thoughts. Yours were....let me say it this way.........interesting. Thank you for at least reading my posts, though they were rejected.

i know little about Coptic Chrsitianity and perhaps this is why we are butting heads.

Doxi,

So there is a God of the Old Testament and a God of the New Testament. This has been discussed before...

There is nothing new under the Sun....

Christianity is Catholic whether it be Coptic, Syrian, Greek or any other....this is what you should know.....

504Katrin · #18 Feb 28, '13, 8:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doxiemom

Ok, one more time

God the Father has as His wife the Jewish people: this is refered to in the Old testament

Jesus the Son , is the Bridegroom and we-the church- are the Bride. This is refered to in the New testament.

God has plans for the jews that have yet to be fulfilled. That too is in Scripture.

Replacement theology is wrong. Period.The jews have not been replaced as God's Chosen people.

I do not want to trade barbs with you. It is not my style. Should you chose to think i am off my rocker about this, that is fine. No sin here involved. And everything, IMHO, comes down to "is this a sin?"

I am here to read others thoughts and give my humble, sometimes not too deep thoughts. Yours were....let me say it this way.........interesting. Thank you for at least reading my posts, though they were rejected.

i know little about Coptic Chrsitianity and perhaps this is why we are butting heads.

I like your thoughts

I liked your previous post even better were you explained why both, Jews and Christians, have an everlasting relationship with G-d.

One question though, out of curiousity

You write that "God has plans for the jews that have yet to be fulfilled" how does this match to your other thought that the Jews are the married ones while the Christians weren't married yet, so to speak. Wouldn't they, as the bride, consequently, have to be the ones to yet be fullfilled?

Doxiemom · #19 Feb 28, '13, 11:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CopticChristian

Doxi,

So there is a God of the Old Testament and a God of the New Testament. This has been discussed before...

There is nothing new under the Sun....

Christianity is Catholic whether it be Coptic, Syrian, Greek or any other....this is what you should know.....

Now you are being rather silly and you are smart enough to know that there is only one God. And that I was not saying that there are 2 Gods.

I assumed you understood the TRUTH of the Holy Trinity

So far i have not read anything you wrote to change my line of thought. perhaps if you were able to give me something more solid, something serious then I will entertain answering you agian.

Yours in Christ, Dox

CopticChristian · #20 Feb 28, '13, 11:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doxiemom

Now you are being rather silly and you are smart enough to know that there is only one God. And that I was not saying that there are 2 Gods.

I assumed you understood the TRUTH of the Holy Trinity

So far i have not read anything you wrote to change my line of thought. perhaps if you were able to give me something more solid, something serious then I will entertain answering you agian.

Yours in Christ, Dox

Doxie,

Can you have a wife and a bride?

Doxiemom · #21 Feb 28, '13, 12:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 504Katrin

I like your thoughts

I liked your previous post even better were you explained why both, Jews and Christians, have an everlasting relationship with G-d.

One question though, out of curiousity

You write that "God has plans for the jews that have yet to be fulfilled" how does this match to your other thought that the Jews are the married ones while the Christians weren't married yet, so to speak. Wouldn't they, as the bride, consequently, have to be the ones to yet be fullfilled?

Well thank you for asking me and I will try my best to answer as well as i can.

First let me talk about the Bride: We were given our mission by Jesus to go forth into the world and preach the Good news. It is being done. Believers know just Who their messiah , their Savior, is.

The Bride( christians, past, present, and those who will be before this event happens) is like a bride dressed in her beautiful white gown waiting for the sacrament of marriage to be completed. She knows who the bridegroom is and they love one another.

So when the Marriage Supper of the lamb takes place in heaven, then the Bride is joined together with the Bridegroom . Jesus said he would not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the proper day comes and this will be that day. So , in this sense, you are correct, our fate is not complete. We have yet for this to happen and , as one more thing,many of us will be part of the governance when Jesus rules on earth as King.

But since God has already joined himself to the jews under the Abrahamic Covenant- a blood covenant- liken unto when a man first is intimate with his wife and her blood is shed- she will always belong to him.

You have to put aside the secular jews, the messianic jews, and consider what are refered to as torah jews. According to Scripture, there will be 144,000 Jewish men (12 x 12,000) who will be sealed by God during the tims called Tribulation. They will be sought and Anti-christ will try to wipe out all jews, but these will be supernaturely protected by god. A rather sci-fi idea, i know, but I am talking God here. These are the men- assuming their womean and children also- whose eyes have had scales that blinded them, their ears have been closed up, and kept for this day. Their eyes and ears will be opened and see their messiah-Jesus-pierced- and mourn for Him as a brother.

Their mission will be to preach to all who are living though this time of living hell on earth. They , after all, are still the Chosen people, who will bring the Word to the world. Not just as moses brought the law to the hebrews, but the World of God to all the world. They are the Chosen People, and God gave them this task and God never changes. it is still their birth-right.

until the time when the earth is purged by fire and we shall have Eden again, this is still to be their task- preaching the Word. becasue sthere will still be people with rebellion against Jesus in their hearts. That is how much God loves His spouse, this people set apart. How important they are.

They have not been replaced by Christians..

This is what issiah speaks of and what paul spoke of and what john spoke of the things to come in Revelation. And other bibical prophets.

There are honest sincere Christians who have been taught that the jews are cast aside and that all these things have either been accomplished or will be accomplished by Christians. catholics esp. believe it is only catholics and it is all about rome and not about jerusalem. They, as i see it, are just wrong. being wrong is not a sin, it simply means you are wrong.

Doxiemom · #22 Feb 28, '13, 12:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CopticChristian

Doxie,

Can you have a wife and a bride?

Sure, if you are a trinity

CopticChristian · #23 Feb 28, '13, 12:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doxiemom

Sure, if you are a trinity

Doxie,

Explain this.

Doxiemom · #24 Feb 28, '13, 12:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CopticChristian

Doxie,

Explain this.

no. cuz you know what it means.
this is not a sincere conversation

CopticChristian · #25 Feb 28, '13, 12:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doxiemom

no. cuz you know what it means.
this is not a sincere conversation

Doxie,

No, I don't know.

The Father has a bride?
The Son has a wife?
The Holy Spirit is a bachelor?

Explain this in simple terms.

504Katrin · #26 Feb 28, '13, 2:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doxiemom

Well thank you for asking me and I will try my best to answer as well as i can.

First let me talk about the Bride: We were given our mission by Jesus to go forth into the world and preach the Good news. It is being done. Believers know just Who their messiah , their Savior, is.

The Bride( christians, past, present, and those who will be before this event happens) is like a bride dressed in her beautiful white gown waiting for the sacrament of marriage to be completed. She knows who the bridegroom is and they love one another.

So when the Marriage Supper of the lamb takes place in heaven, then the Bride is joined together with the Bridegroom . Jesus said he would not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the proper day comes and this will be that day. So , in this sense, you are correct, our fate is not complete. We have yet for this to happen and , as one more thing,many of us will be part of the governance when Jesus rules on earth as King.

But since God has already joined himself to the jews under the Abrahamic Covenant- a blood covenant- liken unto when a man first is intimate with his wife and her blood is shed- she will always belong to him.

You have to put aside the secular jews, the messianic jews, and consider what are refered to as torah jews. According to Scripture, there will be 144,000 Jewish men (12 x 12,000) who will be sealed by God during the tims called Tribulation. They will be sought and Anti-christ will try to wipe out all jews, but these will be supernaturely protected by god. A rather sci-fi idea, i know, but I am talking God here. These are the men- assuming their womean and children also- whose eyes have had scales that blinded them, their ears have been closed up, and kept for this day. Their eyes and ears will be opened and see their messiah-Jesus-pierced- and mourn for Him as a brother.

Their mission will be to preach to all who are living though this time of living hell on earth. They , after all, are still the Chosen people, who will bring the Word to the world. Not just as moses brought the law to the hebrews, but the World of God to all the world. They are the Chosen People, and God gave them this task and God never changes. it is still their birth-right.

until the time when the earth is purged by fire and we shall have Eden again, this is still to be their task- preaching the Word. becasue sthere will still be people with rebellion against Jesus in their hearts. That is how much God loves His spouse, this people set apart. How important they are.

They have not been replaced by Christians..

This is what issiah speaks of and what paul spoke of and what john spoke of the things to come in Revelation. And other bibical prophets.

There are honest sincere Christians who have been taught that the jews are cast aside and that all these things have either been accomplished or will be accomplished by Christians. catholics esp. believe it is only catholics and it is all about rome and not about jerusalem. They, as i see it, are just wrong. being wrong is not a sin, it simply means you are wrong.

Thank you for your kind answer

I think I understand you. The marriage will take place in heaven when Christians reunite with Jesus.

However, here're - how could it be any other way

- some more questions...What happens during the Eucharist though, isn't it a means to unite with Jesus on earth who is alive in this sacrament?
Jesus said he wouldn't drink from the fruit of the vine anymore until he would drink it with the father in heaven. The last time he drank from the fruit was on the cross before he died, which is when the passover supper was completed. And he didn't specifically say that he would drink it with others in heaven. After his resurrection he visited some disciples and broke the bread with them, and this was when they recognized who he was. Breaking the bread with them was so important to him that this was the first thing he did after his resurrection. He broke the bread and gave thanks. It seems as if Catholics physically unite with Christ in the Eucharist on earth like the bridegroom physically unites with his bride?

SteveVH · #27 Feb 28, '13, 3:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doxiemom

it says what it says in the Old testament.
God the Father has as His wife the Hebrew people. Jesus-the Son- has Christians as His Bride- He would not lose one of us as we were given to Him by His Father.

Interesting. Can you give me the Old Testament quote(s) that refer to the Jews as the "wife" of God? No one can argue that Jews are God's chosen people. It was Jesus, a Jew, however, that expanded the family of God to include all people as God's "bride" so that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal 3:28). I have never heard the notion that the Father had a wife and Jesus would have another. Something just doesn't click so I must be missing something. Maybe you could explain further.

Thanks.

1answer · #28 Feb 28, '13, 4:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doxiemom

Nope

We are the wild branch grafted onto the fig tree. The Jews are still the original branchs of the fig tree.

No one replaces the Jews ( and I speak of torah jews,) They are still covered under the Blood covenant between Abraham and God Himself .

Just as we, Christians, are the Bride of Christ, The Bridegroom , with Whom we all shall sit down with in the Supper of the Lamb on great day in heaven, the Jewish people are the wife of God. There are many references to this marriage in the old testament. God would not get a divorce.

you see, events are not done and God still has a plan for them.

Replacement doctrine is a lie.

wow you are right on--

and that is so surprising on this forum-- because people seem to have the hermeneutics confused

Biblical hermeneutics is the science of properly interpreting the various types of literature found in the Bible.

might i share some of the "hebrew roots" movement info?

jim staley has a pretty good teaching of bible history--

and i like michael rood on the teaching of the hebrew understanding of baptism- the historical aspect of the jewish mikveh or baptism

Published on Mar 8, 2012
For two thousand years we have all been taught that Israel is the Jewish people and the Jewish people are Israel.

This misunderstanding has crippled our ability to truly glean from the scriptures all that was originally intended. The greatest prophecy of the bible concerns this very topic.

Many have called this teaching the key to understanding the entire bible.

I will let Professor C.A.L. Totten of Yale University tell you his thoughts concerning this very subject:

"I can never be too thankful to the Almighty that in my youth he used the late Professor Wilson to show me the difference between the two houses

. The very understanding of this difference is the KEY by which almost the entire Bible becomes intelligible, and

I cannot state too strongly that the man who has not yet seen that Israel of the Scripture is totally distinct from the Jewish people,

is yet in the very infancy, the mere alphabet of Biblical study, and that to this day the meaning of seven-eighths of the Bible is shut to his understanding."

—Professor C.A.L. Totten (1851-1908) of Yale University

Doxiemom · #29 Feb 28, '13, 8:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveVH

Interesting. Can you give me the Old Testament quote(s) that refer to the Jews as the "wife" of God? No one can argue that Jews are God's chosen people. It was Jesus, a Jew, however, that expanded the family of God to include all people as God's "bride" so that "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal 3:28). I have never heard the notion that the Father had a wife and Jesus would have another. Something just doesn't click so I must be missing something. Maybe you could explain further.

Thanks.

Bible verses:
Isaiah 54:5
Jeremiah 3:14
hosea 2:16 and 2:19

this is not a common teaching. But isn't scripture full of things that need to be discovered and then you say to yourself"how did I miss that?"

It was Paul whom you quoted and he was trying to clear up bickering ( sound familiar?) between different cultures. Jews always excluded gentiles and it was going to take a heck of a lot of adjusting to accept them. Peter had to be given a whole vision about this by God.

Doxiemom · #30 Feb 28, '13, 8:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1answer

wow you are right on--

and that is so surprising on this forum-- because people seem to have the hermeneutics confused

Biblical hermeneutics is the science of properly interpreting the various types of literature found in the Bible.

might i share some of the "hebrew roots" movement info?

jim staley has a pretty good teaching of bible history--

and i like michael rood on the teaching of the hebrew understanding of baptism- the historical aspect of the jewish mikveh or baptism

Published on Mar 8, 2012
For two thousand years we have all been taught that Israel is the Jewish people and the Jewish people are Israel.

This misunderstanding has crippled our ability to truly glean from the scriptures all that was originally intended. The greatest prophecy of the bible concerns this very topic.

Many have called this teaching the key to understanding the entire bible.

I will let Professor C.A.L. Totten of Yale University tell you his thoughts concerning this very subject:

"I can never be too thankful to the Almighty that in my youth he used the late Professor Wilson to show me the difference between the two houses

. The very understanding of this difference is the KEY by which almost the entire Bible becomes intelligible, and

I cannot state too strongly that the man who has not yet seen that Israel of the Scripture is totally distinct from the Jewish people,

is yet in the very infancy, the mere alphabet of Biblical study, and that to this day the meaning of seven-eighths of the Bible is shut to his understanding."

—Professor C.A.L. Totten (1851-1908) of Yale University

I love it when I learn of the deeper meaning of the original language and also of the meanings of the Appointed Days and of the very Jewishness of Jesus. Much of what He said seemed rather mystical to me, but to the jews he was speaking to, they knew exactly what he was talking about. Unless He chose to befuddle their minds for a bit of time until necessary.

Even the very letters of their script always point upward towards God!

working4christ2

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